Kathy Ireland by Omnia Furniture

Ok, so I have just about settled on a style, the City Craft by Kathy Ireland made by Omnia. Omnia has a decent website, I like the simplicity of the cushions and they are detachable, and the frame is hardwood ply.

They have serpintine springs running in the back and seat, are those really worse that "8-way."?

Is this a good brand? Anyone, out there have any experience?

Is there a very comparable brand out there, that is much less expensive?

Does Palliser used particle board?

And My final question, bari leather looks to be about the most inexpensive internet dealer, does anyone have a suggestion of a less expensive internet company.

Any experience with bari leather.

Thanks,
Wallace

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Originally Posted by Wallace

Ok, so I have just about settled on a style, the City Craft by Kathy Ireland made by Omnia. Omnia has a decent website, I like the simplicity of the cushions and they are detachable, and the frame is hardwood ply. They have serpintine springs running in the back and seat, are those really worse that "8-way."? Is this a good brand? Anyone, out there have any experience?

I've no 'hands-on' experience with this brand but a look at their construction details shows me its a mediocre product with little substance. None of the features one looks for in desirable furniture are present in their construction cutaway. And yes, there is a major difference in 8-way vs. strip coil springs.

Is there a very comparable brand out there, that is much less expensive?

I think this is already an inexpensive brand.

Does Palliser used particle board?

I know of no upholstery maker using particle board, as it won't hold nails and screws in stress usage. I think what you're referring to is 'engineered plywood' instead, which is specialty plywood used in the furniture frames of low to mid-line product. If so, there are many makers who use that.

And My final question, bari leather looks to be about the most inexpensive internet dealer, does anyone have a suggestion of a less expensive internet company.

Wheww! If you want to go even cheaper than Bari, perhaps looked for used leather instead. Otherwise you'll be shopping bi-cast. A 5 year-old Hancock and Moore sofa has more lifespan left in it than a brand new Bari leather piece.

Thanks,
Wallace

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Good luck!

Thanks for your time already, I hate to push it but I have just a few more questions.:confused:

"None of the features one looks for in desirable furniture are present in their construction cutaway. And yes, there is a major difference in 8-way vs. strip coil springs."

What should one look for in construction. There cut-away (http://www.omnialeather.com/constrFrame.aspx) looked pretty decent to me but I'm a newbie with furniture. I don't need down seats or feathers. And if in a few years i could have the strip coils replaced if I wanted.


"I think this is already an inexpensive brand."

My current quote is $4,300, for as I call it, a 2 sofa sectional, six seats total, and the seat depth is 25 inches, which is why this one cost a bit more compared to say the "pacific heights." which runs about $3,700. Both full top grain. that is if I buy from bari leather, dealer.

In your opinion is this a good value, or is there something out there that is just as good but less expensive, which would make it a better value? Palliser maybe? Bradington and young. maybe?

"bari leather" which seems to be the least expensive dealer, that I have found. If anyone out there knows of a less expensive dealer, please let me know.

Is there any company out there with a very comparable construction to OMNIA, but less expensive, what brands if so, do you recommend.


Does palliser, or bradington and young use, engineered plywood.

I found a website that has ranked leather furniture manufactures.
http://www.leathershoppes.com/showro...turer_rank.htm

Is this ranking system accurate in your opinion.

Thanks again, you're awesome.
Wallace

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Originally Posted by Wallace

What should one look for in construction. There cut-away (http://www.omnialeather.com/constrFrame.aspx) looked pretty decent to me but I'm a newbie with furniture. I don't need down seats or feathers. And if in a few years i could have the strip coils replaced if I wanted.

Browse this forum in the sub categories and there are pages and pages of what to look for in better pieces. The real trick is to not necessarily have to buy in the finest made, but to not overpay for ANY furniture in any category and thats where knowledge of the brand comes in together with what to look for.

FYI you are never going to have the coils upgraded. That's like replacing the stud walls in a home. You can do it, but its going to be cost prohibitive. Better to buy the right one from the start.

My current quote is $4,300, for as I call it, a 2 sofa sectional, six seats total, and the seat depth is 25 inches, which is why this one cost a bit more compared to say the "pacific heights." which runs about $3,700. Both full top grain. that is if I buy from bari leather, dealer.

$ 4,300 isn't terrible for a sectional with dual sofas on each side (three seats on each segment plus the corner). But if its loveseat (2-seat per side) then its no great bargain at all. Bradington Young runs its 727 series sectional in married cover at $ 3,500 or so and its built a whole lot better built with hardwood frame and 8-way hand-tied coil springs, for example.

"bari leather" which seems to be the least expensive dealer, that I have found. If anyone out there knows of a less expensive dealer, please let me know. Is there any company out there with a very comparable construction to OMNIA, but less expensive, what brands if so, do you recommend.

This is honestly hard to say without being very familiar with the brands. And the only way to really know is to sell them and see what holds up and what doesn't. For me, its hard to compare against brands I can only see on the website as I have accounts with Hancock & Moore, Leathercraft, Bradington Young, Flexsteel and Southwood as leather sources. Those I can compare and contrast on as I have experience with the lines, anything else is just an educated guess.

Does palliser, or bradington and young use, engineered plywood.

Engineered Plywood is used in a lot of upholstery, even the highest brands. However, many makers use it only for a portion of the pieces (say 20%) rather than the whole product. In some areas of a piece, Engineered Plywood is more practical to use and gives a better service life.

I found a website that has ranked leather furniture manufactures.
http://www.leathershoppes.com/showro...turer_rank.htm
Is this ranking system accurate in your opinion.

That's pretty humorous! I notice the dealer who made that up sells B-Y but not the other top brands he lists as the best. There is no way that B-Y can stand with H&M, Leathercraft, or even Classic Leather. Its not in the same class, nor is it priced to be. I'd have to make some adjustments to that list! B-Y down a notch, Pottery Barn dropped to the basement, Sam Moore knocked down one....and like I said, many I don't have enough hands-on experience to render an expert opinion on.

Wallace

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Glad to help!

Omnia has a good reputation overall. Hancock and Moore is considered the pinnacle, and priced accordingly. But not everyone can spend that kind of money and not everyone likes their styles.

I just looked at the sofa you're considering, and its made by a lot of manufacturers. I'm sure H&M makes a similar style, a lot of factories do, so price it out. But I wouldn't avoid Omnia.

Ok, so now I'm thinking palliser horizons line. Because you guys scared me away from the sinuous springs. By the way DRCOLLIE, great analogy, with changing out the studs, fixing the springs would be a major overhaul and now it makes perfect sense. Palliser does have drop in 8-way hand tied, at least in their horizons line. I'm thinking Spence or Riverton as the style. Yes, drop in 8-way is the poor man's 8-way, but that will do I guess, or at least that is what I've read.

Has anybody out there had problems with palliser horizons. Do they use "engineered wood." or any other horrible things I don't yet know?

I believe they block, glue, "pinned", and staple the wood frame. Is that wayyy inferior to a dowel.

How bout the leather, from what I can tell they have a bunch of different full grains. Is this leather inferior to other manufactures full grain. I assume that they use the same cows and the same leather factory when they buy the leather?

And again thanks for all the help guys.

Wallace:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wallace

Ok, so now I'm thinking palliser horizons line. Because you guys scared me away from the sinuous springs. By the way DRCOLLIE, great analogy, with changing out the studs, fixing the springs would be a major overhaul and now it makes perfect sense. Palliser does have drop in 8-way hand tied, at least in their horizons line. I'm thinking Spence or Riverton as the style. Yes, drop in 8-way is the poor man's 8-way, but that will do I guess, or at least that is what I've read.

Has anybody out there had problems with palliser horizons. Do they use "engineered wood." or any other horrible things I don't yet know?

I believe they block, glue, "pinned", and staple the wood frame. Is that wayyy inferior to a dowel.

How bout the leather, from what I can tell they have a bunch of different full grains. Is this leather inferior to other manufactures full grain. I assume that they use the same cows and the same leather factory when they buy the leather?

And again thanks for all the help guys.

Wallace:)

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Wallace,

I'm going to let Steve answer the Palliser-specific questions as he's a dealer for them and can probably even hook you up with an excellent delivered price.

Joinery....I could write pages and pages on it. However most decent pieces will have a combination of doweled, blocked, screwed and glued in the frame. Check the warranty of the frame, most any piece that has a lifetime frame warranty is going to hold up decently. Its not that much more expensive to make a frame correctly, so rarely are there skips in that department. I have never had a failed frame in almost three decades in this business.The Spring set is more important to comfort and use, as is the cushion material content. Good springs are not cheap, and good cushions are not either.

As to leather, here's the differences:

Full Top Grain : The key word here is "Full", which means 100% natural grain and you are usually going to find this only in the most expensive leathers. Only 2% of hides worldwide are good enough to grade out Full Top Grain. Always an aniline. Most these hides come from Europe, and they are typically the most expensive in a maker's line.

Top Grain: More commonplace, and is usually an aniline or semi-aniline. This was a Full Top Grain hide that has been slightly altered through light sanding. Its barely noticeable when looking at it. Still going to be mid-to upper price grades and usually has enough protective top coat to resist most stains and spills, and retains almost all the desirable characteristics of the Full Top Grain.

Corrected and Embossed Grain: This is where the bulk of mid-priced leather furniture lives. The leather has been heavily sanded and then a grain pattern is embossed back into the hide for a natural look. If the leather you are looking at is very uniform, most likely its this class. Always "pigmented" or "finished". Lots of protective top coat in this class.

Split Grain: Almost every hide is split into an upper and lower section. Only the uppers are used for furniture upholstery and the lower splits are used for shoe leather, belts, industrial usage, etc. You will not find splits being used in furniture.

Bi-Cast: Not really leather at all, but a hybrid product made from leather scraps, which are then chemically melted (destroys the desirable leather cellulose bonds), the applied over a polypropylene sheet. Embossed, then painted. In many countries, its illegal to use the word leather in conjunction with Bi-Cast, but not in the USA. Does not have the strength or durability of leather. Personally I would never buy Bi-Cast.

So that's the rundown of leather categories, and in the brands you are shopping you will most likely be shopping in the Corrected and Embossed Grain group. That leather is very durable (and is designed for hard use) but does give up a degree of softness, suppleness and the natural grain patterns. However, this is a good category to make your first leather purchase in, and down the road you can move up into the finer hides. I'd estimate that probably 60% to 70% of all leather sales are made in this category.

I thought I'd ask a few questions that may help the rest of the forum members make suggestions to you.

Where geographically do you reside? Some furniture brands/makers only sell in certain areas of the country and maybe their is a "local" brand that might make sense for you.

What type of use do you expect and who will be using it? Mainly occasional seating with adults, or lots of use both children and adults...

How long do you plan on owning the piece? Some people just want to get 5-10 years out of a piece and go buy new, some want 10+ years and either reupholster or go new, some want the piece to last a lifetime and get something that will last with only reupholstery every other decade or so.

Does the apperance and fine details matter a lot or does it just need to look nice and hold up? An example would be asking yourself if you Toyota or Lexus both have good quality but Lexus is a step above and the price reflects that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wallace

Ok, so now I'm thinking palliser horizons line. Because you guys scared me away from the sinuous springs. By the way DRCOLLIE, great analogy, with changing out the studs, fixing the springs would be a major overhaul and now it makes perfect sense. Palliser does have drop in 8-way hand tied, at least in their horizons line. I'm thinking Spence or Riverton as the style. Yes, drop in 8-way is the poor man's 8-way, but that will do I guess, or at least that is what I've read.

Has anybody out there had problems with palliser horizons. Do they use "engineered wood." or any other horrible things I don't yet know?

I believe they block, glue, "pinned", and staple the wood frame. Is that wayyy inferior to a dowel.

How bout the leather, from what I can tell they have a bunch of different full grains. Is this leather inferior to other manufactures full grain. I assume that they use the same cows and the same leather factory when they buy the leather?

And again thanks for all the help guys.

Wallace:)

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Don't be afraid of sinuous springs. They don't only exist as a cost cutting measure. They have been around for decades. I've seen crappy 8-way product, and I've seen what happens when the coils get untied and it isn't pretty. And I've seen what happens when there isn't total consitstency in the tying process. And drop-in 8-way coils are not the same as what H&M uses. There is absolutely no room to cut corners in labor or material with 8-way, but I've seen it done over the years anyways. Honestly, outside of a handful of companies, I'd be a LOT more afraid of 8-way than sinuous. And again this is based on my own experience selling and owning both, and seeing the product that we've replaced for people.

I don't think Palliser Horizons is any better overall than Omnia. But I happen to like the Horizons line, I do think its quality product, and the people who bought it years ago still have it and still love it. Its a good value and I think you'd be happy with it.

Just got a quote on palliser riverton sectional. If facing the sectional it would be on my left side a sofa, then in the middle a corner, and on my right a love seat (5 seats and a corner). In a 5000 leather, I'm partial to the Havana, and Savannah (both heavy weight?) or 1.4 mm. $3,959.

I got a quote from the same dealer, on the Kathy Ireland by Omnia in the City Craft style, sinuous springs, in the leather called softy, which is a kinda thicker and pebbled and full top grain leather for $4300., softy is alot like the 5000-6000 series of palliser, I think.

Which one is the better value.
Palliser has the 8-way, but omnia has the sinuous springs?

I've sat in the CIty craft, But not in the Riverton?
Which is the better value? Anyone else out there have any input?

Could I find the same palliser in the same leather cheaper, on the net or other place.

thanks for the input,
Wallace